This UK website sprung-up recently:

http://www.starttherevolution.org/

Haven't had time to fully check it out, but it could be a useful source of info.

no offense man, but "start the revolution" is controlled opposition, divisionist crap, don't fall for it.

From their Mission Statement:

"I will continue to be classified as a terrorist until they are removed from power (you see what I mean? I am ideologically opposed to the government AND I advocate the overthrow and removal of them.

...The only way that will happen is if the armies are aware that they have the full support of the majority of the people. We are trying to start that movement. We aren't looking to overthrow the governments, just to give the tools of support to those that have the tools of force to get it done."

They are supporting and encouraging a military coup, specifically against the bush and blair administrations.

Aha, that clearly wins the Post of the Day award. Go Chris.

Although you did quote me slightly out of context and in a different order to that which those statements were actually made in the Mission Statement may I quote from another part of it...

"If you choose to join us in this fight then your help, input and information will always be gratefully received. We are not looking for relentless nodding in agreement either. If you believe that there is a flaw in the information we are being given then say so…We can’t always get it right and we need to know if we are getting it wrong."

As promised above I reviewed what you said and I fully accept that those statements were not correctly demonstrating the idea of the project clearly at all so I have changed them to make sense of what I have in mind.

I am not a Pulitzer winner and never will be. I am a guy who wants things to be better and understands that the present form of government that we have is not what it was meant to be and that it will not change unless forced to do so. Not the use of force as in "get the army and let's ride" but as in the force of the united people saying "no more, we have had enough of this and we are more interested in becoming better people than making better machines to kill each other with."

That said I am sure that these small changes alone will not change your overall view of the site and that is a shame.

Incidentally, “divisionist” is the very opposite of what we are, or at least what we aspire to be...We want to bring people together. We support no political party and no outrageous ideology...Just that mankind would make better choices if we had access to the truth on a more regular basis. As for being controlled opposition I am no such thing. I am a guy with an idea and I am looking for others to join me who share in that idea/ I do not seek to convert, I seek only to introduce those of similar mind to one another and myself in the hope that there are truly enough of us to change things and soon.

Essentially we are trying to "anti-spin" our way to a new time where the people have the government work for them again and not the other way around.

I hope that you get the time and the inclination to come and try us again as we need all the help we can get.

Please do not simply use this as an opportunity to flame me for coming here either. We all have stats on our sites and we are all interested in where our traffic comes from. It would have been much easier to ignore you and return to the people that are already a part of what we are trying to do but I chose to keep my end of the bargain, change the thing which was incorrect and report that back to you with a full explanation of my mistake...

Is that such a bad thing?

Winston,

Thank you for replying and for attempting to responsibility for your actions. I apologize for quoting you out of context, as I was trying to point out the parts of your "mission" that encourage a military coup. People can read your, now revised, mission in its entirety here: http://www.starttherevolution.org/missions...ent/mission.htm

Your mission statement brings up conspiracy research, specifically jfk, fluoride, the CIA, and then without expanding on those statements or encouraging people to do their own research, segues directly into starting a revolution and overthrowing the government. This is why I called your site the controlled opposition, not because you are a paid asset, but because you are playing right into what I perceive as a plan for controlled conflict. I would also say that in a way the Bush Administration and Blair are the controlled opposition to the globalist agenda... they are used intentionally to split people up into red/blue, for us or against us, they drive people to extremes as they believe the only solution is to "start a revolution" even if they don't understand the forces behind and within these world events.

I take issue with the conspiracy information you list as a justification for overthrowing the government, whether peacefully or by force, as written without context within twentieth century as a whole. They are part of a larger plan than just the personal ambitions of the bush and Blair administrations, or the simple overstepping imperialism of American empire. Quite frankly, government has been just as useless and unserving of the people's needs during the entire century as it is now. If anything has changed, I think that advent of Internet publishing has given us a way to circumvent government censorship and propaganda, at least in the western world, like never before in the twentieth century. That is the only revolution I support, and it is not imposed by the people only sustained by them.

If you begin researching conspiracies of the new world order you will begin to see deadly consistency which some have come to call collectivism, globalism and social engineering. It is a plan to create a Utopian society through controlled conflict, depopulization, perpetuation of war, dialectical opposition, government schooling, propaganda, mind control, economic depression, perpetual war... the list goes on and on. Not to digress but I have used the"Internet revolution" to publish conspiracy research on the new world order and our ancestral past. If you are interested, you can find it on conspiracy central.

Incidentally none of these larger and more consistent conspiracies are listed in your mission, whether you are aware of them or not, they add a context which might encourage people to seek personal knowledge rather than social reform. As you said "I am a guy who wants things to be better and understands that the present form of government that we have is not what it was meant to be." Well the best way to accomplish that , in my opinion, is to seek answers before seeking force and trying to impose a new order on the world.

As it stands I do take issue with the name of your site and your overt encouragement to for people to "start a revolution" - "if we don't, who will" etc. Without the right understanding, such a revolution would be a part of the "controlled opposition" ie, part of the new world orders plan to divide people into warring factions and get us us to kill those who we believe are oppressing us. truthfully and sincerely, as much as the URL and name have a sensational effect on people, I don't believe that it is serving your intention of bringing people together.

That said, welcome to Conspiracy Research.org, a place where all us slaves can begin to widen our boundaries and understanding of what government authority is really all about, and maybe learn a thing or two about about your own personal power. My research has show that social revolutions have been engineered and created intentionally throughout history, but I'm open to hearing anyone interpretation of what it means. That's what this place is about. I hope that you stay and contribute to our common goal of individual freedom and personal responsibility.

Chris Carota

Well, I don't support or encourage a military coup either . . as if. I just posted this as there seemed to be quite a lot of useful 7/7 info/links there. I'm personally not keen on the name of the site "start the revolution", but it depends on what kind of revolution - one step at a time fellas - were still at the infomation awareness stage. Alex Jones' new documentary "TerrorStorm" is a great compilation of 7/7 facts and analysis, just watching it now - I recommend everyone tries to get hold of a copy as soon as you can:

Info here: http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/forums/i...p?showtopic=778

Glad to have sparked debate and welcome a representative of the http://www.starttherevolution.org/ site





The more of us working in the same direction the better, keep sharing that validated info around

Hear hear

Winston's Myth, many thanks for taking the time to drop by & put forward your case in person. I very much appreciate it that you have done so.

In general, I think it bears mentioning that everybody has different motivations, different ways of seeing things, but that doesn't necessarily suggest such a radically different agenda. Thankfully, we are not (yet) clones, drones with a hive mind. I would hope that especially the members here who suscribe to maxims such as follow the heart, or choose the path with a heart, would be the first to appreciate that someone else's choices are their own to make, & their sincerity of belief that it is the correct path for them may be beyond question.

As we go along, we all refine & redefine our views & opinions, & my own wish is for this to happen in a peaceable & amicable environment. We need to encourage good inter-site relations, & help keep information free & available for others to make their own minds up. Lately, we have seen a great number of people in the movement who would decry others as "disinfo merchants", "liars", or whatever, whilst the evidence that they uphold as their ultimate truth is deeply flawed. They cannot see it however; let's not fall into the same trap.

Please guys, don't allow opurselves to be pulled down to that level, but instead, first consider the possibility that Winston's Myth might truly be acting through the best intentions, & genuine in his desire to present the facts as he sees them. If we disagree, let us debate. We may never reach agreement, but let's not reject the possibility that our own perceptions cannot be improved on before we explore that. If we are entirely honest with ourselves, we are also are engaged in a revolution, an information revolution in trying to get facts and info out to people.

How will things procede after enough people are informed? Knowledge is nothing without responsibility & action; I don't personally see that we are going to convince TPTB to cease & desist in their nefarious activities simply by having enough people ask them nicely; thinking positive thoughts that it would be much nicer if they would just go away is not going to make them simply disappear.

Let's sieze differences as opportunities, & use them to our advantage in our learning.

~Cypher

Thanks for the warm welcome Cypher

I have to say that the original "flame" post has made me spend some time rethinking the "Mission Statement" even after the clarification changes were made.

I wrote it in July of last year when my feelings were running pretty high and, to be honest, I wish I didn't have to take it back and I wish that we could storm the Houses of Parliament and kick the whole lot out on their backsides!

However...

I am also aware that the movement needs many, many more members and, in time, that may well be a possibility.

The truth is if we all say enough then they have no power...If we all say "damned politicians" then nothing changes.

The Revolution is more of an information revolution than a physical one at the moment...

The revelation before the revolution?!??!

I am glad to find another forum out there that is holding together some good values, interesting opinions and a good research base. I agree that TOGETHER we have all the pieces and the TOGETHER we can all put the jigsaw together but I think that the first thing we have to do is run campaigns that get the truth out to those that have yet to awaken as well as running campaigns of civil disobedience to make sure that TPTB understand that we are growing, getting louder and more united by the day.

We have found that smaller but more "personal" issues are the easiest way to get support. Our Anti-Fluoridation campaign is growing fast and has led to many letters being published in local papers thus letting others know that there is a different "reality" and hoping that they at least find the time to look into it and see if they find anything that they like.

Chris - I chose those four particular "conspiracies" because they are things that the sleepy have probably never even considered. The site is NOT about telling people what they already know (for the most part anyway) but more about getting people who had absolutely no idea about any of this to listen and pay attention.

For me the biggest problem that we have is the leap from reality to reality that most sites require people to make. A lot of people can be put off by that and I am trying to fill in the space.

Asking somebody who thinks that al-Qaeda is a worldwide terrorist organisation with structure and form to believe that Osama was trained by the CIA is a toughie for them to grasp. Asking people who think that their taxes are too high to understand that they are being poured into a war with no purpose other than to secure oil and drugs is something totally different and much easier.

The nation has so many people in so many mindsets and ALL of those people MUST be engaged in the debate for the debate itself to have any real meaning.

Many people are doing the Illuminati, the Bilderberg Group, the CFR, Trilateral, Bloodlines, Population Destruction, Education destruction etc. etc. etc. but very few are opening the door to those who know NOTHING of what "we" know.

I would love nothing more than for you guys to help out and let me have your info and news tips whenever you think that there is something to add to the knowledge base and I cordially invite you all to read our stories and let us know what you think.

Thanks for your time all of you. I will keep up to date here and I look forward to many long nights of learning and banter

In the meantime I will see what the availability is like for starttherevelAtion.org!!!

I think my follow-up was considerate of the fact that Winston's Myth has genuine intentions. However, the things I said about the effects of his verbiage on the site still stands. It is not a personal judgement of the site or the intent of its founder, but rather of the reactionary effects that it could ultimately have. It plays to a dream people have of overthrowing authority without any real understanding of conspiracy.

Although he may be acting through his best intentions, intention is something different from the effects of intent. Even if someone has the highest intent, they may often do or say things which can have a radicalizing effect that was not necessarily intended or desired. I'm all for am abstract interpretations of revolution and radical thought, but these terms have become associated with terror and violence in this century, and so when people see or think about revolution, they might not be thinking about spreading info on the Internet. They might be thinking about skipping the revelation and going straight to revolution, so to speak. Taking responsibility doesn't just involve your intent it also the effects of your intent, whether intended or not.


Well getting their attention, which is perhaps the intent of using a name like "start the revolution", is one thing, but immediately transitioning from listing conspiracies into a reactive solution is, IMO, disinforming people. Choosing what people should know before immediately suggesting a broad solution of civil disobedience is not responsible and doesn't really help anyone. First of all it makes people associate conspiracies with a purely governmental perspective, leaving out secret societies, globalists and our own participation in consensual despotism. the overt manifestations of fascism governments are very real, but they are far form the only from a complete picture of authority in the world of conspiracies.

Also, it sort of implies, like the communist revolutionary ideal , that the revolution need not be conducted by people who are in the know, but rather led by an intellectual elite who are in the know. The Proles need not understand , only have a consensus through which their "force" as you called it can be applied. This encourages an interpretation of human beings as masses rather than conscious individual capable of making up their own minds. Consensus often demands that we sacrifice our individual opinions in favor of someone else's intent, and that is a dangerous thing both to the person individuality and to his community, as it removes the essential context of personal responsibility. We end up being someone elses pawn in a revolution to bring about someone else's idea of a utopia.

Fascism is a dystopia, In my opinion, used not just to suppress its citizens and the countries it invades, but also to be a sort of military boogeyman to dialectically oppose and provoke international scorn, terrorism, etc. In the immediate, this is used for the globalist to divide people and create the sort of revolutions I' have been talking about to consolidate power. Secret societies benefit from the conflict and unrest this creates, allowing them feed of of our imaginations and spiritual energies. IMO.

This relates directly to the concept of despotism and individual responsibility, our own complicity in a consumerism, the democratic process, propaganda networks, and the use of violent force through controlled opposition. Talking about conspiracies in relation to revolution without including secret societies, despotism and collectivism would be a simplistic reaction to a partial interpretation of the meaning of conspiracy.


As I said, both focus entirely on fascism a a simple interpretation of us imperialism, such as being for oil etc. Also, I don't think people 't have trouble understanding that the CIA trained alqueda or supported Saddam, its part of documented history and pretty much known by everyone. Instead what I perceive is an unwillingness to acknowledge the effects of that truth due to personal responsibility toward action that it would involve. This is why I believe that conspiracy research into fascism and golbalism should be kept separate from advising people on how to solve the problem.

I think everyone is meant to hate the system, it is meant to drive people back and forth, to shred heir individual interpretations through the dialectical nature divisionism which helps sustain the constant and unending flux of economics and war. being revolutionary forces opoeple to choose sides, with us or against us. The so-called political battles we think are important, the so-called wars we oppose or support, the so-called "issues" we believe in , the so-called education we put ourselves through, the so-called working conditions we subject one another to, the products we buy, the investments we make. On and on it goes, how much is engineered and how much are we engineering ourselves?. Without answering that question for yourself, and an acknowledgement that our personal security and families are involved, it is impossible to get make a well rounded interpretation of the meaning of conspiratorial.


First of all, I make a distinction between secret societies and globalists. Traditionally globalist are relatively public and open about their aims and affairs. The trilateral, the bilderbergers, the Fabians, CFR... these are part of what is called by many of the globalists themselves, "the open conspiracy". It has been stated on the record for over a 100 years. Its maneuvering is very well documented and most of its members are known, are even a part of out political history. Hence, this creates the myth that all secret societies are linked with government.

Personally, I interpret secret societies to be, well, secret. They are cult like, almost always have religious element or background, and their means and objectives are far more difficult to ascertain than military industry complex or the socially engineered world government. The illuminati, skull and bones, jesuits, zionists, templars, etc. These secret societies have a sacrificial nature which they associate with their ideas of "power", often through a Faustian pact with "the devil" or whatever entity they believe can grant them worldly dominion. Due to their religious sacrificial nature, bringing about violent revolutions, genocides and human conflict, whether through communism, fascism or the collectivists, has been one of their long term goals for a very long time, perhaps centuries. Some of these societies plan things hundreds of year in advance.


Sorry, I disagree. There is tons of material in the mainstream about us imperialism, propaganda, fascism, etc. Again, I belie this is because of the reactionary effect it can have... people think they have the whole picture of why war exists... and that can often lead to them protesting and become "terrorist" by lawful definition, as you said of yourself on the site. This is definitely what the secret societies behind both the fascists governments and the collectivists agenda want; the collectivists use the fascists and the communists to bring about their global agenda, and the secret societies use the collectivists to bring about huge human sacrifice and control. But again, this is my own interpretation. But even this point of view leaves out the despotic element of our own lives.

For example, although many people are talking about secret societies, as you said, and many people are talking about US imperialism thing, and some are putting them together. but what both are often lacking is a incorporation of the self sacrificing despotic element as part of their conspiratorial view. This is something that is encouraged by government, religion, secret societies, globalists, communists and militaristic fascism, but ultimately it is the individual who must destroy himself or others. Social engineering systems are sustained by the willing cooperation of every single human being within the system... This is why "revolution" is often interpreted as a solution to conspiracies, because it involves the responsibility of the people involved at all levels. However, my interpretation of this personal responsibility is to attain self-knowledge. This is the final element of conspiracy research which is often overlooked or seen as a distraction... spiritual, immaterial and the imagination are a huge part of our individuality, of who were are, and the authoritarian conspiracies can been seen as a direct attack on our own sense of self-knowledge and personal power. Conspiracies to do with our ow personal power are actually the greatest source of knowledge one can find, yet they are often the least discussed form of conspiracy research.


I agree, the fascist government, the globalists and the secret societies, they all want us to make only a partial interpretation of conspiracy and to act from that partial understanding. In this way our reactions can be predicted and manipulated in advance. Therefor, people must acknowledge that they are part of the conspiracy before jumping ahead to a active rather than a reactive solution. I have trained myself to be on the look out for reactive solutions an partial interpretations.. it is a part of my personal power. At the same time, I spend much of my efforts on focusing not just on all levels of authoritarian conspiracy, but on the positive and somewhat magical and mysterious nature of being human. Power and authority, an integration of the two elements of the occult, the hidden truth.

In addition to doing conspiracy research, posing here and elsewhere, I have also spent a lot of time, and still do, assembling occult media and creating compilations discs which I publish. The series is called Induction Into Power and Authority, and its main aim is self-education, self-knowledge, and a holistic reinterpretation of individual freedom throughout human history. So I admire your publishers spirit, putting together a website like you have done is an amazing feat and a worthy endeavor. As I said before, publishing on the Internet is the only revolution I'm interested in, and you are definitely on the aright track. It is only a holistic interpretation that is missing from much of the information published on the Internet, a lack of acknowledgement of how our good intentions can be used by others to bring about a wholly different situation than we predicted. By the way, I think that "start the revelation", is an awesome name for a website... I don't think its teh revelation before the revolution, I think that the revelation is the revolution.

I hope this makes sense and I support and empathize with what you trying to do, but as an individual I have to evaluate the whole situation, and that might include the unfortunate possibility of violent revolution, conflict and divisionism. These are important things to discuss within the conspiracy research community because they directly relate to how we fit into the grand scheme of things. We are the powers that be.

Thanks for the encouragement Chris. Much appreciated

Just wanted to highlight on one thing that I think is important...

Start The Revolution is about educating people to the point where the "next level" becomes available to them. One thing we will have to disagree on is whether or not people accept that Bin Laden was trained by the CIA. I think that the "average" (nothing "average" about the human being but there you go...) person in the street doesn't think of that as fact but as a conspiracy theory. Paying too much in tax is something that is not only tangible but easy to demonstrate. I don't propose a violent revolution but one of refusal to continue down the route of ignorance. I want people who would never have considered the fact that the extra tax that they have been paying into the NHS, for example, since Blair came to "power" is not being poured in so that WE may enjoy a better NHS but it is being poured in so that the "company" becomes a better business proposition for those that the government wish to sell it to.

I don't expect to get people to do anything more reactionary than refusing to pay all of their council tax or all of their water bills but I DO hope that, by the time people have spent a while understanding that the government lie, the media lie and the public themselves can be dragged into helping that lie along then they are "ready" for the grander themes, schemes and theories and, at that point, I would hope to have awoken something inside them that enables them to go on and find their next step. In their own time at their own pace but with the same results. In short, I do not expect my readership to be around ad infinitum, in fact I expect it to be constantly changing as people finish the first steps and then go to the next level on the ladder.

I get many e-mails now from people all over the world who say that they were given the slap in the face that they needed by our site and now some of them have not only gone on to other and "greater" levels of thinking but have even come back to me with "news tips" and ideas that I have personally learnt much from and can only hope that our readers have too.

I don't have all the answers...In fact I don't have many but I will continue to try and get the sleepy to drink the coffee and not just think about smelling it!

In the meantime, as I said before, if you would like to write some articles for the site then please do. I am totally opposed to suppression of information and, by that measure, anything that has a factual basis is "printable" in our context.

I hope that you do and I would also urge you to go back to the beginning of the site through the archives menu and see not only how much the site (thus me!) has changed in terms of content, style and message but how much broader and therefore bigger the "net" has become in terms of the number of people that we can engage.

Now to rewrite that mission statement!!!

And by the way...

"We are the powers that be"...

I like that!!!!!!!!!!

I have now uploaded the latest version of our mission statement and I think that it reflects my current feelings on things much better...

I hope that you like it and thanks for pushing me to get on with it!

Thank you Winston, the new statement does seem to more accuratly reflect the position you have stated here for the intentions of the site. The only thing I would point out is where you say "Either you are with the citizens...Or you are against us!" I think that this is divisive and does not serve your stated intention of bringing people together.

It is just a play on the "with us or with the terrorists" speech by Dubya...

Just for fun and I think that most people will see it that way. I hope so anyway!

Glad you liked it though. I think it does truly reflect what we are "about" nowadays and I look forward to writing with a little more "spring in my happy step" too!